Best alignment process for the Celestron NexStar 8SE
I’ve blogged about my challenges and successes (Finally learning with the Celestron NexStar 8SE and Solving alignment problems with the Celestron NexStar 8SE), so I thought I would do a quick summary of the proper way to align my scope in case it helps others.
Here are my “four” options, although the first two are obviously tongue-in-cheek:
A. Give up
Either get a different scope or take up knitting…I actually thought about both.
B. Do it wrong for five years
Or until two people help you figure out why it’s not working (see above two posts).
C. Regular Auto Two-Star alignment – Short version
I’ll give the full write-up below with all the bells and whistles, but this will just be the short process steps.
- Setup tripod;
- ** If you are using a wedge, add wedge plate underneath;
- ** If you are using vibration suppression pads, set them under the legs;
- Add mount/arm;
- Attach Optical Tube Assembly (OTA), and then retighten the supporting plate on the tripod with the new weight on it;
- Plug in the power source;.
- Turn on scope, lower tube to a horizontal position, turn off scope;
- Level the scope;
- Turn on scope;
- Align spotter scope or TelRad or red-dot finder;
- Press enter to start alignment;
- Change to AUTO TWO-STAR;
- Hit BACK/UNDO to go back to CUSTOM SITE, enter GPS COORDINATES;
- Enter time, date, DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME or not, and timezone;
- Choose a star from the formal list, centre it roughly in the eyepiece, press ENTER, fine-tune your centring (Up and Right as last movements) by eyeball, reticule or doughnut methods, press Align;
- If you used the doughnut method, refocus to a tight star point view;
- Choose Star 2, let it slew to near that spot, centre star roughly in eyepiece, press ENTER, fine-tune alignment (Up and Right again) by eyeball, reticule, doughnut methods, press Align;
- Wait for “Alignment Success” message;
- Test your alignment on the two alignment stars you used;
- Turn off your TelRad or another device;
- Start looking for new objects!
D. Regular Auto Two-Star alignment – Long version
- Setup tripod, extend legs;
- ** If you are using a wedge, add wedge plate underneath to ensure legs are at full extension and locked;
- ** If using vibration suppression pads under the legs, add them underneath;
- Add top of mount/arm if not already attached (I leave mine attached all the time);
- Attach Optical Tube Assembly (OTA)…some people attach it with the tube horizontal, Celestron nameplate facing you and readable, tightening knob underneath. I find it FAR easier to have the knob facing left so that I am attaching the OTA vertically with the opening facing up and my star diagonal / backplate facing down. This allows me to rest the star diagonal in my right hand while standing “behind” the arm, and guiding it with my left hand into the mounting rail slot. Then I tighten. By doing this, I also make sure that my star diagonal has clearance underneath i.e. the thickness of my hand, so just in case when I’m viewing I go to zenith, it will clear my base. This works awesome for me. I also then retighten the support plate under the tripod — when the weight gets added, it often goes a bit wider so the plate isn’t “tight” anymore;
- Plug in the power source, as the AA batteries drain quickly (which will then make the alignment and mount start to go wonky fast);
- Turn on scope, lower tube to a horizontal position, turn off scope;
- Level the scope…now that the weight is on it, you need to level it, mostly by adjusting the height of the legs on the tripod. I have both a simple bubble level (allows you to see all directions, not just the one direction that a typical hand level shows you) and an app on my Android phone called Cliniometer / called Bubble level on iOS;
- Turn on scope, wait for the screen to clear (about 3-5 seconds);
- Align spotter scope or TelRad or red-dot finder. Note: When you are using your spotting tool, the benefit is that it and your scope should be pointing at the same thing, so if you see it in your spotting tool, you should see it in your scope. Therefore, you can use your spotting tool to find something, and then move to your scope. However, this only works if the two tools (spotting tool and telescope) are actually pointing at the same thing as closely as possible. This step is to make that happen before you start trying to align your scope. First, find a distant object on the horizon, like the top of a telephone pole or a tree. If it is already dark, you might have to use something really bright and easy to find like the moon or a really bright star, but it is better to do it in the daylight. Second, use your spotting tool to move your scope so it is pointing close to it, and then look through the telescope to fine-tune your view, centring your object in the view of your scope. Third, once it looks dead centre in your scope, your spotting tool (spotting scope / TelRad / Red-dot finder) have little manual adjustment knobs, dials, or screws to do a small physical adjustment (without moving the scope) so that it points to the same place your scope is looking. At this point, then, your scope is looking at a distant object and is centred on it, AND your spotting tool is now centred on it too. From this point on, you can use your spotting tool to point at anything in the sky, and your scope should be looking at the same object too. [Note: Generally, I find TelRads are the quickest and fastest spotting tool, but some people like having a separate spotter scope mounted. Nobody likes the red-dot finder. However, regardless of the three options, the process is generally the same];
- Press enter to start alignment;
- Change from STAR ALIGN (i.e. default 3-star) to AUTO TWO-STAR;
- It will then ask you for some basic data, but if you have changed locations from the last time you viewed, you should hit BACK/UNDO to go back to where it says something like CITY DATABASE or CUSTOM SITE, and if possible, use CUSTOM SITE. It will then ask you for your GPS coordinates in longitude and latitude by HOURS:MINUTES:SECONDS. Google Maps will give you the coordinates if you go to the exact spot, and then right-click on the spot, choose What’s Here. It shows you decimal coordinates, click on them and it will show them in HOURS:MINUTES:SECONDS. Or skip GOOGLE MAPS and download an app like GPS COORDINATES for Android or iOS which will tell you directly, or use software like Sky Safari or Sky Portal by clicking on settings, current location. It will give you the exact coordinates you need. Enter both longitude and latitude. Ignore the negative sign, it will ask you if it is north/south or east/west. [My coordinates are 45 degrees for latitude and I enter that with minutes and seconds and choose NORTH; -75 degrees for longitude so I enter 75 plus minutes and seconds and choose WEST to handle the negative part). Note that alternatively you can use the city database, rather than GPS coordinates, but cities are large, and the larger the city, the greater margin of error you are adding to the process;
- Enter your time, date, whether it is DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME or not, and the timezone you’re in. Best if you can be as accurate as possible on your time;
- Now you’re ready to choose your first star. The scope will give you an obvious list of good stars to choose from. If you are like me and aren’t always sure which one is Polaris (don’t ask), or Vega, choose one that you can learn and that you can’t miss. For me, that’s Mizar, and it’s almost always on the list (if it isn’t there, I can do MANUAL TWO-STAR and select it). I can almost always see the Big Dipper when I’m viewing, and it is pretty clear which one in the handle is Mizar. Plus it’s a double star so if I look through the scope and see it, I know if it is Mizar or I’m off i.e., it’s pretty easy to tell if it is the right one or not. The alignment of your first star takes TWO steps. First, you get it in your FoV generally using your red dot finder (blech) or a TelRad or spotting scope — you just need to get it close enough so you can see it in the eyepiece, don’t worry how close to centre it is. Then, you press ENTER. Now you’re ready for fine-tuning your centring…the important part to know though is that the drive for the scope has slippage in it. To keep it tight, and give yourself the best alignment, you want to be pressing UP and RIGHT as the last two movements on your scope before pressing align. For me, with a star diagonal on my scope, it means I need to be in the upper left quadrant of my eyepiece. Then, when I press UP it will take me down towards the middle, and right will take me the right to get to the middle. If I overshoot either one, I can’t just back up a little, because that would mean going down or left on the hand controller i.e. within the “play” of the scope, and the alignment won’t be tight. Instead, I have to go past the middle points again, back to the upper left quadrant, and then go UP and RIGHT on the hand controller to get to where I think the middle is. (** Note that UP / RIGHT is only “tight” if your motor speed is 1-6 at that point, speed 7-9 would be the opposite.) How do you know if you’re in the “middle”? Three ways:
- Eyeball it. Of course, the less precise you are, the greater the margin of error when you’re done. Then press ALIGN;
- Use a lighted reticule — this is basically an eyepiece you can buy that has a little red light in it and a grid. It looks like a target screen. You can use your general eyepiece to get in close to the centre, and then this lighted one to get it exactly dead-centre. Then press ALIGN;
- Use the doughnut method — this one is completely counter-intuitive. Instead of a “tight” focus, turn your focus knob to make it extremely UNFOCUSED. Your tiny little star will start to look like a small doughnut, then a medium-sized doughnut, then a large doughnut. Which will let you gauge the distance from the edge of the doughnut to the edges of your eyepiece. In other words, instead of guessing if your little marble is close to the centre of a basketball hoop, you’re unfocusing it to the size of a beachball and estimating if your large beachball is centred in the same-sized hoop. Much easier to tell how far from the “four” sides (up / down / left / right). But again, you still want to be going UP and RIGHT as your last movements. Then press ALIGN;
- If you used the doughnut method, refocus to a tight star point view;
- Choose Star 2 from the list (see some notes below about which combination of stars to choose). You ideally want a star that is in a different part of the sky, at least 15 degrees above the horizon, and preferably, at a different height than your first star (so that it is working with different angles, not just rotation along the same altitude). The great part is you don’t really need to know which is which. Once you press ENTER to choose the star, the mount is going to rotate to that star with its best guess as to where it is. So it might say let’s go to Skat. Except you don’t know Skat at all. Doesn’t matter. Because when it slews to Skat, you’re going to likely see only one really bright star within a Field of View (FoV) of where it stopped. In other words, you’ll just go to the nearest bright star to where it stops, centre it in the same way as you did for the first star, get it close to centre in your eyepiece, press ENTER. Then do your UP and RIGHT to do a final alignment to centre (with eyeballing it, using a lighted reticule, or making it look like a doughnut again). Press align;
- You should get a message after a few seconds that says “Alignment Success”;
- Test your alignment. Most people will pick a third target and say, “Okay, let’s look at Saturn.” Which makes sense, right? You did alignment on two stars, let’s see how it finds a third. Instead, though, you should tell it to go back to the first star (Mizar in my example above). Because it’s one of your alignment stars, you should be DEAD CENTRE for that star. And then you can tell it to go back to Star 2. If either are not dead centre, something’s wrong with your alignment. And if I had to guess, I would bet it was the UP and RIGHT play for your final alignment. It could also be levelling, or your choice stars, or whatever, but I’m betting you’re off with the final alignment step, it’s the most common. Which part of the alignment was the problem? If you’re generally above or below the star, it was your vertical (your final UP motion) aka your altitude. If you’re generally left or right of the target, it is the horizontal (your final RIGHT motion) aka your azimuth. Note that on my default settings, the UP/DOWN settings were initially set to INVERTED in the menu, so I spent two years doing UP and RIGHT without realizing I was ACTUALLY doing DOWN and RIGHT, thus throwing off my altitude every time. Grrr…;
- If your two alignment stars came back solid, you’re good to go. Turn off your TelRad;
- Start looking for new objects! Note that objects close to your alignment stars will be the most precise, including those in between. Those objects farther away from those points of alignment will be less precise, but likely still within the FoV of a 25mm eyepiece. That was the default EP sold with the 8SE in most cases, and apparently the accuracy of the scope was kind of geared to it.
Choosing good stars
What are the best two stars to choose? There are some basic tips online ranging from types of two-stars (generally at different altitudes, not complete polar opposites, both more than 15 degrees above the horizon, etc.) to specific suggestions. On CloudyNights, a guy named Curt B posted back in 2015 and suggested the following stars:
- January: Capella & Aldebaran
- February / March: Sirius & Rigel
- April: Regulus & Procyon
- May: Regulus & Arcturus
- June/July: Vega & Arcturus
- August: Altair & Deneb
- September: Altair & Rasalhague/Vega
- October: Altair & Vega
- November: Altair & Caph/Vega
- December: Enif & Hamal
As I mentioned above, I often choose Mizar if it isn’t too high because it is so CLEARLY Mizar and not something else. Most people start with Polaris as they are confident they can find it. Depending on my light polluted skies, I’m not always 100% sure. Mizar has no doubts. Some people like software combos on their desktop to make a list and http://www.ilanga.com/bestpair/ has some free software. It has been superceded by a program called AstroPlanner, but you have to pay for that one (although it has lots of great functions). If I run Best Pair II, and enter the 15th of the month for 2017 and 8:00 p.m., here is what I get as the best pair in my rough area (Ottawa):
- Jan 15: Deneb and Arcturus
- Feb 15: Vega and Hamal
- Mar 15: Vega and Hamal
- Apr 15: Vega and Hamal
- May 15: Polaris and Mira
- June 15: Bogardus and Markab
- July 15: Capella and Denebola
- Aug 15: Capella and Denebola
- Sept 15: Alkaid and Procyon
- Oct 15: Alkaid and Procyon
- Nov 15: Vega and Denebola
- Dec 15: Alkaid and Altair
None of which are Mizar. Vega, Altair, Arcturus, Polaris and Capella are great choices, eminently “findable” with the naked eye, and would give you one star out of the two to start with for 9 of the 12 months. Not bad.
Alternatively, there is a program by Jean Piquette, and available from the NexStar resource site that Michael Swanson runs. http://www.nexstarsite.com/Downloads.htm#SAS will take you to the program for download. This is a bit more technical than most people are likely going to be comfortable with in terms of setup…you have to edit a couple of text files to put in your info, then run the program, with it spitting out a few files that will tell you good choices. It is based on the 21 “NexStar” alignment stars that it likes by default.
When I run it today, Oct 22, 2017, it suggests the following for my area:
- Altair Polaris
- Altair Mizar
- Vega Polaris
- Vega Mizar
- Vega Altair
- Polaris Mizar
Six combinations of Altair, Polaris, Mizar and Vega, and almost all of which I could find no problem. Overall, I would say that this estimate is far better for me than the other one, although the first one has more range in a choice of possible stars. This one does, however, give out a MUCH longer list of choices too, almost overwhelming in fact.
I’ll keep both programs and see what they give me from time to time. Something else to remember to do before I leave the house though. I’d prefer an app for that, and there ARE some options for downloading things in Sky Portal and/or Sky Safari Pro, but I’m not entirely clear how to combine the lists properly for prioritization. More like “good sets” in general, regardless if they are actually visible tonight or make good combos for tonight compared to others.
But I’m getting farther afield from the original premise — how to align properly for a general process, not which stars are chosen. Hope this helps. Of course, your mileage may vary.
Thanks. I tried the up right as the final alignment, but when I go back or select another target, I am almost always left lower quadrant. I use the star diagonal that came with the scope
Hi Neal,
If I’m understanding you correctly, you do UP RIGHT (and ensuring it is UP RIGHT for the scope, not the view, i.e., you literally see it go up and right for the tube) but then after alignment “success”, your target shows up in the lower left quadrant.
In my experience, there are three possibilities.
First and foremost, it sounds like you are doing up and right but the HC is taking it as LEFT and DOWN. So try playing with your approach…there are only two variables, up/down and left/right. That means you ONLY have four options, and it will take you about three minutes to test each one, max:
1. UP/RIGHT
2. UP/LEFT
3. DOWN/RIGHT
4. DOWN/LEFT
Try each on in turn and then tell it to go to your first star. Picking two star names at random, Altair and Deneb. After you get alignment success, tell it to GO TO Altair. Pick it from one of the built-in lists. As an alignment star, it will be the best alignment you get. If it isn’t dead centre, nothing you do the rest of the night will matter. If it isn’t dead centre, try the other three. Complete shutdown, wait 30 seconds, turn it back on. Try the next option. See if one of the other three works better for you. If so, it is likely you had the same problem as me, one of your settings is inverted. You can change it later in the settings and go back to UP/RIGHT or just leave it as is.
Alternatively, if you find that RIGHT/UP is your best but still off one way more than the other, you CAN adjust BACKLASH settings to take some “looseness” out of your setup. I don’t have much advice on this, there is lots of good stuff online on how to adjust backlash, but I don’t like it much myself.
A final option is more “refinement” to try. Some people have terrible first alignments. They go to Altair, align. They go to Deneb, align. Alignment success. But then they go to their new target, perhaps Mizar, and it’s off. Or they go to Altair even, and it’s off. So now they do refinement. Instead of using the 25mm lens, now they pop in a 10mm or 12mm and do the alignment again. They keep their existing alignment, but they tell it to GO TO Altair. They use whichever set of directions works the best for them (as per option 1 above). And when they have Altair dead centre at higher power, they tell the scope to REPLACE alignment star 1 with the current star. In effect, that is replacing Altair (rough) with Altair (precise). Then they do the same with the second star — tell scope to GO TO it from the list (not manually), fine tune so it is dead centre, and then REPLACE star 2. Some people like to use lighted reticle EPs for this and swear it works perfectly for them. And then subsequent slews/gotos are dead on for the night. It works, but if you’ve got the rough one dialed in, I’m not sure it’s required. One thing it WILL do though is give you a better chance of being still seen in a higher power EP without having to go back to the 25mm in between targets.
Hope that helps!
Paul
Thank You for the tid-bit of information. i am new to astrophotography but am looking forward to trying this info out.
Hope it helps, good luck!
Paul
aka PolyWogg
Great article. I just wanted to point out something with the quote below.
“My coordinates are 45 degrees for latitude and I enter that with minutes and seconds and choose West; -75 degrees for longitude so I enter 75 plus minutes and seconds and choose NORTH to handle the negative part”
You have the latitude and longitude reserved. Latitude is North or South. Longitude is East or West. You have also mixed up the negative.
Oops, you’re right. I’ve read that dozens of times and never noticed…
P.
Thanks for this write up! I’ve learned a lot from it. However, I have a question when it comes to the “UP, RIGHT” motion to assure a precise lock on the target. When you say the final movements should be UP, RIGHT, does it matter how many times the UP or RIGHT arrows are pushed? For example: I’m ready to align and I press UP and release when I think it’s centered but… it isn’t quite there and I want to press UP again to get a better position, does that ruin the process? I find myself repeatedly pressing a directional button until I get the best mark, so I’m curious if that will work or not. I hope this makes sense!
Hi Chris,
Glad it helped. Yes, you can press Up and release; Up again and release; up again, etc. What you can’t do is go up, up, down. It always has to be up, up, up. If you overshoot, you have to go back (down) and go well past the spot, and then do, up, up, up again.
Paul
That clears it up! I actually gave it a try last night and it was a game changer. And FWIW, one of my settings was set to reverse as well!!
Hi Chris,
Glad it worked…over time, some of the “steps” can likely slip, and once in awhile, it doesn’t work at all for a technique which makes no sense at all, but it improved my process! And glad you found the setting…some people use it, they just have to remember their HC movement is different. And that most “flip” when they go from speeds 4-9 to 1-3. It’s easier for me perhaps as I only use 3, 6 and 9.
Clear skies,
Paul
I understand the Celestron AVX does not track in DEC only RA so I have a question, when in the Alignment mode and have UP/Right buttons to put the alignment star into the center of the Meade 9MM Lighted reticle I see the star sloiwly drift out of center before I press ALIGN and continue to the next step.
Does this indicate a mechanical problem or does ALignment Mode not track the star this allowing it to drift out of center if the ‘align’ button is not pressed right away to continue to the next alignment star ?
Essentially you are correct about the tracking, and it is not a mechanical problem. Until you are fully aligned i.e. both stars in a two-star process for example, it can’t track anything. So it is staying “fixed where you leave it” and the stars will move out of the eyepiece. This is true of any EP, but you REALLY see it with an eyepiece at that degree of magnification. I have a 10mm lighted reticle, and it is almost impossible to align to the exact centre and then press the two buttons so “quick” to get the alignment. But there are two things to remember:
a. If you notice that it is drifting from upper right to lower left, for example, then you can use your final movements to put it in the upper right. And then press your buttons as it drifts past the centre on its way to lower left. I frequently would put it about halfway from centre to the edge (with the correct up/right final movements to put it there) and then as it passed through centre, press the align button.
b. It isn’t a popular notion, but remember you’re dancing on the head of a pin here at that level of magnification — the difference between dead centre and a little bit off centre is not statistically significant. For the 8SE that I have, it is assumed that you are using a 25mm lens. Which means the equivalent distance of being dead centre at 9mm vs. half way to the edge at 9mm is almost nothing in the 25mm lens. Put differently, it would be the difference of centreing perfectly on a star at 25mm vs. being a pinhead away at 25mm. That’s not going to make that much difference for finding things.
You’re more likely to have errors introduced by the scope not being level than being just a bit off on the lighted reticle. In fact, for mine, I’ve stopped using it, it was just too much trouble. Instead, I use the 25mm lens with the doughnut method (unfocusing enough so it is a big round doughnut and centreing that in my EP). I’ve been getting pretty dang good alignment as a result. Not perfect, but it’s not guaranteed to be perfect.
If your alignment is off after using a 9mm reticle, then that isn’t likely your cause…
Paul